# Prime Cain vs Prime Cro Cop in pride **URL:** \ **Category:** UltimateGround\ **Created:** [August 31, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237 "2024-08-31T18:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/21 "2024-09-04T20:12:21Z")
> [@onepunchJD](#): > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > Cro Cop got slept by Randleman. Cain was much better than Randleman. It’s easy to point out singular performances. > > Seems like you might have contradicted yourself there a little… > > Regardless, Randleman was a beast, he was just a hot/cold fighter. > On a given night he was a dangerous fight for anyone. > > Randleman planned that hook off a takedown feint. Cro Cop got caught with it. > Probably Randleman’s most impressive win. > > The rematch… not so impressive. > > Hot/cold. It’s not a contradiction at all to point out the flawed logic in singling one fight out as a reason fighter A would beat fighter B. Crocop was a great kickboxer but his game to circle away and pot shot single strikes wouldn’t play well against Cain who punched in combination and mixed in takedowns to keep his opponents guessing. In a cage it wouldn’t even be a contest. In the ring, I still think Cain beats him more than Cro Cop beats Cain. ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:25pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/22 "2024-09-04T20:25:28Z")
![ufc-knockout](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/3X/8/6/86e3a8979f13f134574759d84390f779cb434fe5.gif) . ![Black Panther Avengers GIF](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/3X/f/0/f057497986e17eb2854d038f98267e12eff4c6d9.webp) ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/23 "2024-09-04T20:41:31Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > It’s not a contradiction at all to point out the flawed logic in singling one fight out as a reason fighter A would beat fighter B. . > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > Cro Cop got slept by Randleman ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/24 "2024-09-04T20:48:43Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > Crocop was a great kickboxer but his game to circle away and pot shot single strikes wouldn’t play well against Cain who punched in combination and mixed in takedowns to keep his opponents guessing. Maybe. Cain was best when using the fence though. I’m not saying he had to have it to score a takedown. But as a high pace pressure fighter throwing heavy leather off breaks – that’s where Cain was at his best. I can see this matchup going a couple different ways, and I don’t pretend to be so certain of the result. Cain did get caught by JDS before he could attempt a takedown, and Cro Cop was an excellent ring general. Cro Cop controlled distance, cut off the ring, and generally engaged on his terms. An argument for Cain might be the Cro Cop/Fedor fight though. The ability to come with heavy leather and mix in takedowns. Of course the approach was different. And I’m guessing Cain would be more takedown-first than Fedor. In a Pride ring I would lean towards Cro Cop. But if they fought 5 times I’m pretty sure we would see more than one different outcome. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/25 "2024-09-04T20:50:16Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > ![ufc-knockout](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/3X/8/6/86e3a8979f13f134574759d84390f779cb434fe5.gif) > > . > ![Black Panther Avengers GIF](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/3X/f/0/f057497986e17eb2854d038f98267e12eff4c6d9.webp) . ![mma bear GIF by DAZN USA](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/3X/1/f/1f7239791b91f9c8fac22b429fc9303b15408e72.webp) ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/26 "2024-09-04T21:02:47Z")
Yes in response to this: "Cain wouldn’t do worth a fuck without a cage, just like Randy Couture couldn’t. Kongo was all over Cain, Kongo couldn’t beat the the shell of crocop’s shadow without 15 kicks to the balls. Prime CroCop was able to bludgeon Coleman and Barnett 3 times. The hype train of Cain Valesquez disappears in the Pride ring before it ever leaves the station." ---
**Author:** ![Pugilist82](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@Pugilist82](https://og.discourse.group/u/Pugilist82)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/27 "2024-09-04T21:32:54Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > [@Pugilist82](#): > > > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > > Cro Cops takedown defense of squatting and pushing both hands under his opponents chin would not have worked against Cardio Cain. > > > > Coleman and Randleman were much more accomplished wrestlers than Cain and he handled them fine. Post-injury Crocop would probably lose, but I don’t think Cain would have anything for a prime Crocop. > > Cain was a much more accomplished MMA fighter which is what we are discussing. Cain didn’t need the cage to take people down. Hes fought in a ring before but I’m sure y’all knew that I was comparing their wrestling because you were mentioning Crocop’s takedown defense. I was saying that in his prime he face better wrestlers than Cain, and his defense was fine. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/28 "2024-09-04T21:34:40Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > Yes in response to this: > > "Cain wouldn’t do worth a fuck without a cage, just like Randy Couture couldn’t. > > Kongo was all over Cain, Kongo couldn’t beat the the shell of crocop’s shadow without 15 kicks to the balls. > > Prime CroCop was able to bludgeon Coleman and Barnett 3 times. The hype train of Cain Valesquez disappears in the Pride ring before it ever leaves the station." Ah … Got it. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![boxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/74df32/32.png) [@boxy](https://og.discourse.group/u/boxy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/29 "2024-09-04T21:41:36Z")
PRIDE rules make it way more dangerous for wrestlers/grapplers. LNP was also much less of an issue in PRIDE. The PRIDE greats were ready to defend soccer kicks and stomps. UFC greats got a free pass from soccer kicks, stomps, and knees to the dome from a sprawl. Mighty Mouse got a taste of these extra attack options in ONE FC. Either way, good fight but I favor prime Mirko in a ring with PRIDE rules over prime Cain. I’d favor Cain over Mirko with the gay, wrestler-protecting, watered down UFC/Unified Rules. ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/30 "2024-09-04T22:55:21Z")
> [@Pugilist82](#): > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > [@Pugilist82](#): > > > > > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > > > > Cro Cops takedown defense of squatting and pushing both hands under his opponents chin would not have worked against Cardio Cain. > > > > > > Coleman and Randleman were much more accomplished wrestlers than Cain and he handled them fine. Post-injury Crocop would probably lose, but I don’t think Cain would have anything for a prime Crocop. > > > > Cain was a much more accomplished MMA fighter which is what we are discussing. Cain didn’t need the cage to take people down. Hes fought in a ring before but I’m sure y’all knew that > > I was comparing their wrestling because you were mentioning Crocop’s takedown defense. I was saying that in his prime he face better wrestlers than Cain, and his defense was fine. They had better wrestling pedigrees but Randleman wrestled at 177 lbs in college and Coleman was too one dimensional to be effective against the next evolution of MMA fighter. Wrestlers like Cain, DC, Jones were able fine tune the transitional spaces between striking and wrestling. They ran because the Colemans, Kerrs, Couture’s, Hendos, and Randleman first walked. I’d argue the same could be said in reverse for Adensanya, Anderson and other successful MMA kickboxer bases today.Guys like CroCop and Maurice Smith were their prototypes. Do you think Randleman would beat Pereira? ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/31 "2024-09-04T22:57:50Z")
> [@boxy](#): > > PRIDE rules make it way more dangerous for wrestlers/grapplers. LNP was also much less of an issue in PRIDE. > > The PRIDE greats were ready to defend soccer kicks and stomps. UFC greats got a free pass from soccer kicks, stomps, and knees to the dome from a sprawl. Mighty Mouse got a taste of these extra attack options in ONE FC. > > Either way, good fight but I favor prime Mirko in a ring with PRIDE rules over prime Cain. I’d favor Cain over Mirko with the gay, wrestler-protecting, watered down UFC/Unified Rules. This is dumb as hell. Bring back headbutts and let’s watch wrestlers destroy your heroes all over again. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/32 "2024-09-04T23:07:28Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > Hendos I think Hendo was as dangerous in the “transitional spaces” as anyone. Right hand, left hand, back fist, awkward angles, etc … That H-Bomb was always a threat. Problem with Hendo was his instinct is to just throw down. A true fighter’s fighter. I believe that had he been just a little more game-plan oriented, his career would have been even better. For such a high level wrestler, he got taken down a lot. It’s because he was more focused on trying to take a guy’s head off. To this day, I believe Hendo with the proper gameplan beats Anderson. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/33 "2024-09-04T23:08:09Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > Bring back headbutts and let’s watch wrestlers destroy your heroes all over again. ![Why Dont We Have Both GIF](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/2X/3/32f96f9c8e1983a7e3f03b79004dea2597fd84d5.webp) ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/34 "2024-09-04T23:10:18Z")
> [@onepunchJD](#): > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > Hendos > > I think Hendo was as dangerous in the “transitional spaces” as anyone. > Right hand, left hand, back fist, awkward angles, etc … That H-Bombnwas always a threat. > > Problem with Hendo was his instinct is to just throw down. > A true fighter’s fighter. > I believe that had he been just a little more game-plan oriented, his career would have been even better. > For such a high level wrestler, he got taken down a lot. It’s because he was more focused on trying to take a guy’s head off. > > To this day, I believe Hendo with the proper gameplan beats Anderson. Hendo was a Greco guy with bombs for hands and an iron chin. He didn’t really have the transitional wrestling game because he was rarely transitioning from anything other than throwing bombs. His style of wrestling was closer to Chuck Liddells in MMA. Keep it standing and see who falls. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/35 "2024-09-04T23:17:02Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > [@onepunchJD](#): > > > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > > Hendos > > > > I think Hendo was as dangerous in the “transitional spaces” as anyone. > > Right hand, left hand, back fist, awkward angles, etc … That H-Bombnwas always a threat. > > > > Problem with Hendo was his instinct is to just throw down. > > A true fighter’s fighter. > > I believe that had he been just a little more game-plan oriented, his career would have been even better. > > For such a high level wrestler, he got taken down a lot. It’s because he was more focused on trying to take a guy’s head off. > > > > To this day, I believe Hendo with the proper gameplan beats Anderson. > > Hendo was a Greco guy with bombs for hands and an iron chin. He didn’t really have the transitional wrestling game because he was rarely transitioning from anything other than throwing bombs. His style of wrestling was closer to Chuck Liddells in MMA. Keep it standing and see who falls. Dude his timing and power off a break were elite. It was intuitive with him. I don’t care how you want to chalk it up on a technical level, it’s still a fight – and Hendo had a better chance than most to end the fight in those transitions. . > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > Hendo was a Greco guy with bombs for hands and an iron chin That’s a pretty damn good combination! He also had elite submission defense. Silva caught him because Hendo was rocked. Jake Shields was a submission wizard with an elite top game – and he couldn’t find a way to finish an injured and gassed Hendo for like 2 rounds in superior position. ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:23pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/36 "2024-09-04T23:23:04Z")
> [@onepunchJD](#): > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > [@onepunchJD](#): > > > > > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > > > > Hendos > > > > > > I think Hendo was as dangerous in the “transitional spaces” as anyone. > > > Right hand, left hand, back fist, awkward angles, etc … That H-Bombnwas always a threat. > > > > > > Problem with Hendo was his instinct is to just throw down. > > > A true fighter’s fighter. > > > I believe that had he been just a little more game-plan oriented, his career would have been even better. > > > For such a high level wrestler, he got taken down a lot. It’s because he was more focused on trying to take a guy’s head off. > > > > > > To this day, I believe Hendo with the proper gameplan beats Anderson. > > > > Hendo was a Greco guy with bombs for hands and an iron chin. He didn’t really have the transitional wrestling game because he was rarely transitioning from anything other than throwing bombs. His style of wrestling was closer to Chuck Liddells in MMA. Keep it standing and see who falls. > > Dude his timing and power off a break were elite. It was intuitive with him. > > I don’t care how you want to chalk it up on a technical level, it’s still a fight – and Hendo had a better chance than most to end the fight in those transitions. > > . > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > Hendo was a Greco guy with bombs for hands and an iron chin > > That’s a pretty damn good combination! > > He also had elite submission defense. > > Silva caught him because Hendo was rocked. > > Jake Shields was a submission wizard with an elite top game – and he couldn’t find a way to finish an injured and gassed Hendo for like 2 rounds in superior position. It’s not a slight against Henderson. He’s been one of my favorite fighters since he was a pure wrestler wanging with Carlos Newton. It’s not easy to transition into takedowns when you’re not attempting takedowns. That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/37 "2024-09-04T23:24:05Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > It’s not easy to transition into takedowns when you’re not attempting takedowns. That was my point. True. One of the things that makes Fedor the GOAT. ---
**Author:** ![WrestlingSucks](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/wrestlingsucks/32/1995_2.png) [@WrestlingSucks](https://og.discourse.group/u/WrestlingSucks)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/38 "2024-09-04T23:27:20Z")
> [@onepunchJD](#): > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > It’s not easy to transition into takedowns when you’re not attempting takedowns. That was my point. > > True. > > One of the things that makes Fedor the GOAT. Fedor is one of them for sure. I prefer Henderson because he was trying to kill people even in modern MMA where that is more frowned upon. ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/39 "2024-09-04T23:37:56Z")
> [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > [@onepunchJD](#): > > > > > [@WrestlingSucks](#): > > > > > > It’s not easy to transition into takedowns when you’re not attempting takedowns. That was my point. > > > > True. > > > > One of the things that makes Fedor the GOAT. > > Fedor is one of them for sure. I prefer Henderson because he was trying to kill people even in modern MMA where that is more frowned upon. ![dan henderson GIF](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/uploads/og/original/3X/c/4/c41eb96dd2c1a40895c166d5c9b383270cb8a2e2.webp) ---
**Author:** ![onepunchJD](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex003/user_avatar/og.discourse.group/onepunchjd/32/340_2.png) [@onepunchJD](https://og.discourse.group/u/onepunchJD)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237/40 "2024-09-04T23:54:15Z")
@WrestlingSucks Do you agree that Hendo with a more disciplined gameplan would have beat Anderson? [Previous page](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237.md?page=1) [Next page](https://og.discourse.group/t/prime-cain-vs-prime-cro-cop-in-pride/4237.md?page=3)