Do you know how these brain injuries even work?
You think they happen instantly or not at all?
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The man said himself, are we concerned about the money of a billion dollar corp or the well being of fighters. Is it fair they should pay because they can? No.
As stated shane fought more outside the UFC then in, shane suffered no tko or ko losses. How many fights did he have out of the UFC? WHat sports did he play growing up? These are all factors in a real and debilitating condition. To put all that on the UFC because they have the money is the issue.
Thatâs where fairness and logic come into play. Shouting they should pay because they can is the low IQ take, or immature take.
No one would argue that IF a fighter sustained major damage that was totally on the UFC, the ufc should take care of them. That seems fair to me, and I assume everyone else.
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Just because other leagues have been âtaken to taskâ doesnât make it right. Everyone knows that headshots can damage your brain. They chose to partake in a sport where the opponent is trying to strike them so hard in the head that they render them unconscious. And how do you prove that the damage they sustained was from the UFC? Iâm sure they sparred in training. Why not sue their gyms? They all fought in leagues outside of the UFC. Why not sue them? This is bitch behavior. They are trying to absolve themselves of all responsibilities instead of admitting that they may have made a bad career choice.
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Just for clarity - the lawsuit is an anti trust lawsuit, itâs about the UFC underpaying their fighters.
The CTE sob stories are coming from fighters who want it settled because they are so desperate for money they will take whatever they can get as soon as they can get it.
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No one was thinking about CTE 15 years ago, maybe ten years ago it started to become more known and talked about. Pretending like these guys arenât suffering from CTE isnât helping anyone and it wonât bring new fighters. Iâm honestly not sure what the solution is but a multi billion dollar company can afford to help its retired fighters with medical at the least. Listen to Chuck try and speak, or watch this Nam Pham video comparing what he used to sound like to what he sounds like now.
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Fighters have to be more responsible, itâs as simple as that. Even if the organisations were to compensate, it doesnât mean your predicament suddenly vanishes. Blows to the head are real bad for you. Joe Rogan has spoken well of this, that it was one of the reasons he stopped (or reduced) sparring/fighting.
Itâs real sad what happened to Phan and he seems to be in complete denial. Guys like him and Fisher are so susceptible to CTE because they were mid-tier guys with a lot of heart so would have a lot of tough fights. Dan Hooker is another example of this, he needs to be so careful. He has already taken a LOT of damage and CTE often will not show up until later on in life. Stefan Struve was another one⌠bad KO after bad KO. I was relieved when he retired but we donât know if it was already too late.
You can get $10M from the UFC and it still wonât fix your brain and you still wonât remember your kids names 10 years from now. Itâs a sad reality and the athlete (and the people behind them) needs to regulate that.
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Maybe you are young I donât know. But Iâve heard about this and seen studies since the 1980âs. Studies showing the affects of head blows go back to 1928
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If you read the article he says he can no longer hold down an engineering job because he cannot focus long enough. Says due to brain trauma.
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Maybe you donât like the words I chose, but itâs all about logic here and not about âfeelingsâ.
Yeah I donât give a fuck about endeavour. But I also donât believe rich people or belong companies should pay just because they have money.
I understand where you can take my statement that way, but I was coming from a logically viewpoint I admittedly didnât fully outline.
Did all NFL players get all their concussions from the NFL? Fuck no, they played football as kids and in college. Yet the NFL still had to pay.
Youâre using silly baseless arguments when we are talking about legal realities here. That makes you the one that is going off feelings because you feel the UFC isnât 100% responsible, which they are not, but that contradicts legal facts.
We are talking about an agreed upon settlement here. The UFC itself has already agreed to it. These fighters are just asking for the settlement to be finalized and for everyone to move on. Shane even said he doesnât care if he can potentially get more later by holding out. Yet that makes him the grifter?
I understand personal responsibility. Every idiot knows if you hit your head your entire life you will get fucked up. I donât believe that any football player, hockey player, or fighter has any grounds to complain in the future or blame their bosses in any way.
But this is a special case given the discovery of CTE. Yes we all knew about punch drunk boxers and NFL/NHL guys retiring from concussion due to issues before, it was all obvious. But formalizing the consequences with the discovery of CTE was a real thing that did change things and that has already been recognized. There is precedence. And this generation of fighters involved here are the ones who existed before that discovery. Maybe they knew about the dangers but not to that extent and perhaps had they known theyâd have made different choices. Perhaps not.
The bottom line is this is an agreed settlement and guys who need money want to be done with it and get what the UFC has already agreed to pay them. It doesnât really matter if you think theyâre embellishing their issues or not, the agreement is done and needs to be finalized by a judge.
Maybe you are the one that needs to deepen your thought process with facts instead of calling other proper low IQ teenage kids.
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Yeah for the nfl, CTE was talked about for the NFL years ago, probably around 25 or so if I can remember. Up until a few years ago, really Gary Goodridge I believe was the first one, up until then CTE was an unknown regarding MMA and how it would affect fighters. The general census was since they get knocked out itâs safer than boxing, since boxing allows fighters to continue after a knockdown and possible concussion. We now know that bs. I do agree with the U4 that fighters need to take more responsibility and call it quits much sooner than later, easier said than done I know.
Gary and Nam competed in kickboxing & boxing respectively.
Gary was knocked out by aerts, sefo, Lebanner, mighty mo, Glaube etc.
Not saying mma doesnât cause brain damage. Of course it does. Studies have shown that even soccer causes brain damage. But in general I donât think mma causes it like boxing. Although some fighters train like idiots so for some it will.
Sure the utc will pay off fighters cause the ufcs calculation is it costs less.
But the fighters are still wrong. The utc is not responsible. The fighters are.
And they know it and are just shaking the ufc down.
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Being punch drunk has been a thing since forever. I canât bother to feel bad for anyone who signs up to get their head caved in. These guys knew the consequences. Itâs not like combat sports just appeared recently.
As far as Carwin is concerned he also played football the majority of his life before MMA.
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On a side note, if the judge decison leads to a full blown case and the UFC wins the case it will be on one side hilarious and another completely sad.
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One thing that would really help, and Iâm certain that this is an unpopular opinion, is that there really needs to be an international database.
Every fight- from amateur to professional should be logged in terms of power shots sustained to the face/head. There should be a finite number that an athlete is allowed to sustain before their career is ended. I donât know what that number is, but Iâm sure that with all the video we have from over 20 years of MMA, a study can be commissioned and completed to determine what that magic number is for the average fighter. Also, if a person is knocked out or TKOâd a set number of times, their career should be ended and they should not be able to compete again. Again, that number can be determined through a legitimate study.
Bottom line- no promoter or fighter should be able to organize a fight involving an athlete who is at elevated risk for neurological damage.
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The issue is the regulatory tape and âfree willâ of the situation.
A guy like Wandy would still fight now if offered the right amount of money. Shit, 60 year old Mike Tyson is about to fight.
These guys are addicts for the adrenaline rush from fighting.
Isnt he friend is shlub?
I remember on old TfatK him talking about carwin a lot and he eas there in the locker room after carwin and shanes body was going ape shit, ice the heart when dana cut him a very large check.
He said the same thing almost word for word what Wand said.
They were braindead before they even started fightingâŚ
A few thing first:
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I never shit on the fighters, at all. Why are you making stuff up?
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Iâm not defending the UFC.
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Iâm not concerned about Shane Carwin or the UFC, only whatâs right.
Just because one party has more money than the other, doesnât make it their responsibility to support the other.
Are you a communist?
Why should we take from one to give to another, only because one has more?
If youâre so concerned about Shane, why donât you stop spending any money on PPVs and send him money instead? He says he canât afford to live. Iâm sure you can spare $500 a month to give him. You have more than he does, so based on your
argument, you should pay him, right?
It doesnât matter it was his decision to fight and that he clearly knew the risks, you have more, so pay him!
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Is free to an extent. I mean, free will exists, but there are still things we cannot do. For example, a blind person cannot get a license to drive a car. If they want to drive, they have free will and should be allowed to do so, but they canât because the laws exist to protect them and others. Why canât fighting be the same??
The lawsuit is over not being paid fairly from what I understand. Carlinâs argument is heâd take the smaller payout because of his CTE.
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