Rickson Gracie Complains ‘Diluted’ Jiu-Jitsu is Becoming a ‘Very Athletic Sport’

UltimateGround
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I never did worlds, medaled at pans and several other local ibjjfs. Never did any ibjjfs before brown because the no reaping rule is gay as fuck. Ibjjfs are pretty lame generally unless it’s pans or worlds though, brown and black division have 3 or 4 people usually

I’ve done that too homie. Well, not titles plural, singular with 2 defenses. By the way, I won that title in a fight with a d1 wrestler (a shitty one admittedly lol) via double leg, no hands pass to mount, take the back, flatten, stop with strikes.

This line makes me think we’d probably actually like each other if we trained. I’ll use leg entries but unless someone has awful leg defense I just want to use them to get on top with connection. I despise fad chokes and basically any sub that isn’t arm triangle or RNC. Every sub that isn’t an arm triangle or RNC is just a way to beat people who aren’t good (speaking in no gi of course, gi has a few more viable subs)

In MMA I play takedowns. In a BJJ match, unless it’s 10 minutes at least, I don’t have 4 minutes to waste battling for a takedown. My guard hasn’t been passed in comp in probably 5 years, and never once in any of my fights. Why would I waste 70% of the match standing when I can sweep and get on top with more connections and control?

There are a lot of people on here who trained and are good. This gay faggotry about “bro I don’t care if no one has every been finished from there in the thousands of high level fights that have happened, you don’t know my control from cradles bro”

Last time I saw Barnett he was teaching cradles out of over under passes. I asked him about real offense from them, figuring if anyone had an answer on that it would be him. His response “it’s a control position, for cooking people until they’re tired. It’s not for finishing, you control from there until people are tired and stop squirming, then advance to finishing spots”

So spare me the “you’ve never been in my cradle bro, Schultz could have killed Rickson from there” bullshit.

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Interestingly the only person I’ve ever asked about finishing from cradle who had a real finish from there it was Ryan Hall, who sets up this weird ushiro sankaku with the leg in. That one definitely falls into the fad choke bucket in my brain though

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Not going to pretend I am really knowledgeable here but (in many ways keeping with the theme of the thread of BJJ’s effectiveness in MMA/self-defence) I always thought that banning knee reaping was the ultimate sign that BJJ was moving from self-defence to TMA (or simply a competitive sport). It would seem that knee reaping is one of the obvious go-tos for self-defence if someone is standing over you as, if properly executed you take away with their balance and movement and are in a position to apply devastating submissions (heelhook, figure 4 ankle lock).

Stop being a pussy and go for Ezekiels.

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If I were Oleksey Oleinik I would!

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It worked for Renzo vs Warring.

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I haven’t thought about that for a while.

When I think of that fight I mostly think “fuck Paulson for not cutting that stupid hair” because he and Renzo would have been a phenomenal fight to watch.

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I would liked to have seen Renzo vs Vale. Vale would have had nothing for Renzo but it would be fun to watch Renzo go to work.

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You’re spot on. Good people will be able to defend her leg locks but that allows you the opportunity to heist and get on top

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It would seem BJJ removed one of it’s most effective moves. A big guy stands over you, vine his leg and twist. He either goes with it and ends up on the ground, goes against it and blows out his knee or tries to stomp and ends up on his back.

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It’s mostly illegal because Brazilians didn’t know leg lock defense and didn’t want to learn, so to assuage their egos they just made it illegal and pretended it was a safety issue

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#1 I agree with you we would probably like each other in real life… who knows maybe we even know each other lol. #2 I never said ‘but you’ve never been in my cradle’…lol, but now that you mention it… #3 I know Barnett very well and I 100% believe he could finish you from knees in the cradle. I can ask him today if you like. Picture this, a prime Mark Coleman on top of you with a near-side cradle throwing knees to your head. This thought alone makes this argument stupid.

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I know this isn’t from cradle but it’s very close, just missing holding the leg with the head. Trust me that’s not going to be the deciding factor… maybe makes it worse for Igor. I was curious this morning so I held a Grappling dummy in a cradle and started throwing knees to the head just to see how it feels. Knees from there are brutal.
One other question, did you win Pans as a Black Belt?

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That was brutal. It shoulda been stopped sooner (once it was clear he couldn’t move or defend the knees).

Coleman gave Góes a brain hemorrhage with knees from a similar position. I remember BJM using this as example of defending earlier stoppages.

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Yes his knees on the ground are scaaary! I think he did the same to a Japanese guy in Pride although I can’t remember who it was…

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I’d hope so, he is 60+ pounds heavier than me and a world champion, I was a local promotion champion at 155 lol. He probably remembers me, I’ve met him a few times but the last was at a seminar of his where I asked a billion questions about his striking defense style because I like the same one (rear parry, lead high elbow comb the hair style).

It’s quite a bit different though. Coleman has some of the best knee stoppages, that goes one you guys mentioned from front head, Igor from n/s. Cradle is different fundamentally though, because of not only the change in distance of the hips, how much of the head is exposed, and how limited in mobility you are.

Unless I’m forgetting something I think his only knee stoppages were Goes and Igor, although he did put damage on Shoji from there. Randleman had a nasty stoppage of a Japanese guy in pride from there though. And the nastiest knee on the ground ever was probably Kondo on Mario Sperry

Cradle I could imagine someone maybe stopping a guy whose tired, but stopping someone from there, especially in modern MMA when guys are so good at turtle bottom defense and getups. Tito’s knee that cut Guy is the closest we’ve ever seen to a cradle stoppage but even that one saw guy make it to turtle to a safe defensive position.

We’re not talking about some mismatch of skills in Shultz and Rickson either. Rickson was just better than him, and the weird shit I always see people do with “yeah but if knees were legal he’d have killed him” isn’t real life

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No I medaled at brown, no gi

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Agree to disagree then. I can generate a lot of power with knees from the cradle, especially to the head. I can’t imagine how powerful someone like Coleman or even Shultz could be. I know Shultz pretty well too, maybe I’ll ask him what he thinks about it.

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One of my training partners back in the day, used to destroy people in NAAFS with cradle/side control with knees. He left dudes with broken ribs crying on the mat. He had a really distasteful but hilarious nickname I’m pretty sure my one friend gave him one night at cageside during one of these beatings. “The Abortionist”.

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I’m not sure he understands what a cradle, and the different types of cradles (near side, far side, etc…) are as well

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