Norton is a hall of fame fighter unlike most of the other guys you can name who beat other heavyweight perennial greats. Ali was in the biggest fight in heavyweight history against Joe Frazier when they both had a legitimate claim to the title as undefeated champions. He was incredibly skilled and was clearly the greatest of the best era in history. He is also the first 3x heavyweight champion. His first and third fights with Frazier are so much more impressive than any other heavyweight fights you will ever see. Absolutely savage and skillful. Beyond human limits in some many ways. They were the perfect foils for each other.
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Agreed.
Ali lost that one.
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Iām aware that Ali lost the first fight but avenged the loss (x2). Anyone but Ali would have been knocked out.
After nearly 4 years off and with only 2 warm up fights (albeit against tough opponents) itās remarkable he could take on a fighter like Frazier in his prime and undefeated.
More or less like this.
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now we know you use AI for rapping
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Okay lol the gif made me laugh pretty good.
Well played, sir.
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If you knew anything about AI you would know it would never be capable of rapping like me. I go in hard afā¦ AI is soft lill bitch and keeps repeating itself.
Itās like Slim Shady vs. Will Smith. Fucking destroyed within a few exchanges.
I beat AI so badly, I went back a couple months later after its update and it was literally censoring all of my bars. Like I wasnāt even cussing. I was just schooling it badly and Iād get content advisory warnings. AI is a fat kid who takes his ball and runs homeā¦ like Harlem did.
I plan on doing a battle with AI and screen shotting it in my rap thread.
Lol at Tom Brady being top 10.
Reminds you of anyone running?
He managed to beat his time 26 years later.
Joe wasnāt in his prime. He got beaten by Foreman just prior.
The whole thing about āwow isnāt amazing what he accomplished even though he took 4 years offā bit just doesnāt make sense to me describing the best heavyweight of all time.
The claims to Ali being the goat always have these little myths with them:
- anyone but Ali would have been knocked out
- imagine what he would have done if not for missing 4 years
Ect. There are plenty of heavyweights who just had great careers, without having to say āyeah but what if.ā
Great HW? Sure. Top 3 HW? Nah.
He beat Ali in Aliās prime though.
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Don Bradman
Theres no objective way of doing it because different sports have completely different sized talent pools, athletic requirements etc etc.
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I think Ali probably beats Louis.
He found a way to beat Foreman.
I donāt think there really is a āconsensusā best HW or best boxer.
But I do think there is a āconsensusā greater prestige that comes with HW titles over all others ā and for good reason.
Ali is counted at the top as much and probably more than anyone.
Itās not only about the skill.
Obviously thatās a huge part of it.
But thereās more to the GOAT conversation.
I donāt believe thereās any 1 HW that beats every single other great HW peak vs peak.
At some point youāre going to run into a matchup problem.
Look at the wars Ali had with Frazier, compared to what he did to Foreman. And look at what Foreman did to Frazier.
But I do think Ali is on the short list of HWs who could come closest to running the table.
He isnāt the only one in the discussion ā but he would never not be in the discussion.
Then you look at what he did relative to his era, and how he did it ā¦
To me Ali the GOAT, and Iām not alone in that.
100% agree with all this.
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I donāt know about the rankings.
You can just use the numbers I guess.
But ranking one weight over another they would never fight, is still going to come down to peopleās opinions.
As far as conversation ā I tend to think a lot of people make those assumptions without really realizing it.
"If fighter A and fighter B were the same sizeā¦"
Yeahā¦ think that one through a little more.
Was just thinking the same thing.
His records are going to stand for a long time.
The GOAT at his position, by far.
Is not having a loss in your prime a requirement for being the GOAT?
Joe Louis had losses.
So is Rocky Marciano the GOAT?
I wouldnāt argue much with that opinion.
Every career is different.
Ali going to war with Frazier 3 times is a huge part of both their legacies.
It adds to their legacies more than it detracts from it IMO.
Yeah Joe Louis is in the conversation too.
Joe Louis didnāt fight Liston, Frazier, and Foreman.
IMO there was also something about the way Ali fought.
It was something to see.
Poetry in motion at times.
Who are the top 3 HWs in your opinion?
Sorry
Novak Djokovic has accomplished way more in his sport than Lebron James.
Not even close.
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Itās cool for his legacy, sure. I love Dan Henderson for his wars. I donāt think heās the greatest LHW of all time though.
Top 3 is tough. In no particular order, Louis, Marciano probably, maybe Archie Moore, Foreman.
Itās not like Ali had some incredibly long career that makes it not matter that he lost multiple times in his prime.
This is what I mean about Ali. The arguments about his greatness always boil down to intangibles and feelings.
Longevity, highest peak, technical developments that changed the game the fighter pioneered, these are the kinds of things that make someone in āGreatest of All TImeā territory IMO. Ali has none of these. Unless we count shit talking to sell PPVās as his contribution to posterity.
No, no its ranking the best ATHLETES. Novak should remain in his lane. I assume itās magic the gathering heās successful in?
But Ali beat Foreman.
Moore lost to Marciano, Patterson, and Ali.
It seems to me you are leaning heavier towards career longevity than peak ability.
I donāt necessarily see it that way.
Itās part of it, sure.
Ali proved to be the best in arguably the best era of HW boxing.
But isnāt that part of it?
Boxing is a sport, sure. But itās also a fight.
There are a lot of intangibles that contribute to the results of a fight.
In many ways, sports are often regarded as dramatic examples of the human experience.
Success, failures, perseverance, conflict, will power, physical limitations, high highs, low lows, etcā¦
And IMO combat sports at the highest level is one of the greatest sort of microcosms of the human experience and demonstrations of individuals imposing their will.
If these guys were robots, there wouldnāt be any real drama involved.
But they are human beings ā so the drama is there.
Itās not a math problemā¦ itās a fluid thing.
Of course thereās going to be intangibles and emotion involved.
Some people lean more towards that side of it than others, which is why these things are a matter of opinion.
Iām rambling nowā¦
Regardless, even if we take all the window dressing out of it ā I believe Ali is straight-up in the argument for the best HW ever just in terms of who would beat who.
And as I said in another post, I donāt think any one HW would run the table vs every great HW.
But Ali is IMO on the short list of those who would come the closest.
Beyond that, he did what he did in one of the most competitive eras of HWs, and did it in a very memorable and dramatic way.
Ali has a handful of fights that even people who donāt follow boxing know about.
So to me, itās all of it wrapped together.
Not just a cumulative win/loss record without context.
Thatās just me.
.
PPV started in the 80s
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