As legendary as they were at bjj, the gracies were even better promoters. Thats ultimately why they were so successful. The family has its roots in carny circus/ pro wrestling promotion before they ever got involved in bjj.
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This thread makes it clear Hillbofreighttrane didnt make it to the new site
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LOLOLOLL
Nobody could hate on the Gracie’s like that guy.
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The Ruffino Dos Santos story he told is really fucked up. I can see the reason for the hate.
So brave to take on a Japanese guy that had a 2 foot height and 300 pound weight advantage.
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Was that the guy the Gracie’s jumped and beat with weapons after he rassled the shit out of them?
There’s also a story of them inciting a riot and turning the lights off in the arena because one of their guys was losing (again)
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Yep
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And jumping several people and spitting on them.
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The best guard pass is knee them in the balls then headbutt right to the nose. Gdazee zhooo zhitsoooo
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Pales into insignificance next to the time he swam through shark-infested waters.
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First, if it “was” superior, is it still? If so, where are the greats? Just Barnett? Does he claim he’s not doing jiu jitsu? What’s the practical difference?
Second - jiu jitsu is so heavily influenced by early catch wrestling that you can’t even make the distinction between the two at this point. I have read that Maeda’s grappling had a huge catch wrestling component to it, and that’s what set him apart from his other judoka pals. And that Helio and Carlos trained heavily in catch wrestling in the early days as well.
Every single catch wrestling move is a jiu jitsu move, and every single jiu jitsu move is a catch wrestling move. It’s all the same thing, it’s just different names for the same art - submission grappling.
If you are training submissions without strikes, trying to tap out your opponent while defending his attacks during live sparring, then call it what you want - you are doing catch wrestling, submission grappling, or jiu jitsu.
The only difference between the venn diagrams of catch wrestling and jiu jitsu is that the entirety of the catch wrestling circle is encompassed by the jiu jitsu circle, except there is more to jiu jitsu, because the entire gi segment is outside the catch circle.
Hold on here, I thought everything was Jiu Jitsu?
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it is now, but back then it was still hybridizing
Carlson fights from the 1950s look more modern MMA than Rickson fights. Carlson could strike and throw back then…
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Thank You for posting this
Rickson has never won a regional, state, national or international BJJ championship
I don’t know why he is looked at as some sort of talking head in regards to issues like this
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That’s kind of my point.
Luckily for the Gracies it is a lost art. Otherwise if there were Catch gyms and all the top college wrestlers and russian wrestlers gravitated to it, they would dominate the BJJ guys at grappling tournaments. Instead its a largely lost art, or so it seems to me.
Having read about Josh Barnett and Sakuraba’s training, its something quite rare that was passed down and largely lost. Whereas BJJ gyms are as common as Walmarts and McDonald’s now.
Not saying BJJ is worthless as clearly you need it or an equivalent (like Sakuraba trained), and like @JohnanthanDoe pointed out, who clearly is much more knowledgeable about this than me btw, it is all traced back to the same art of Jiu Jitsu. But with different schools that focus on different techniques and styles.
My point being, it seems quite apparent to me the Gracie family (or atleast many of them) are arrogant and think of their form of Jiu Jitsu as the greatest martial art in the world - which is all you need.
Which is why they have been surpassed and Kron looked like an antique vs Cub Swanson. Just as an example.
Or how Rufino Dos Santos beat them. Or Maeada beat them. If Hillbo were here he’d put together a much more coherent argument than me though.
You’re definitely right though wreslters (of which I am not one) seem to burn out to injury.
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This is footage from “The Gracies and the Birth of Vale Tudo”.
BTW the tune playing during the fight is a fucking banger and I uploaded it to my youtube channel.
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I have no doubt Rickson was utterly masterful at BJJ. This has been attested to multiple times by guys like Ribeiro, Comprido etc. But his MMA career is nada. And he had every chance to prove himself after getting called out over and over again but wouldn’t fight anyone at all. Yet continued to criticise.
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